The latest deletion kerfuffle

[fenchurch]

*headdesk*

Okay, I'll admit I do have some sympathy for those who've had accounts deleted, because technically they had no specific warning shots across the bow... just sudden, permanent deletions.

But jeez louise people... it was just a few months ago that we had the great Strikethrough '07 wailing and gnashing of teeth. We *know* why those accounts got deleted. The folks at 6Apart (and I feel just a teensy bit dirty about "rallying" to their side in this), while handling things in an incredibly stupid and ham-fisted way, were also pretty clear that underage porn would get you deleted. Why, oh why, would anyone then go and post underage Harry Potter porn art in a Community? I mean, duh?

I will also admit to getting a bit of a laugh (accompanied by an eye roll) over the fact that the folks at 6Apart have changed it so now those deleted accounts show up in bold, rather than with a strikethrough. I guess that's one way to avoid another Strikethrough campaign. *eye roll* Maybe, someday, they'll figure out how to send warning emails.

Comments

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

I also think there's a pretty clear difference between deleting users who post this kind of "artwork" (and I am using that term very loosely) and deleting journals that were set up to discuss Lolita - I can't get very fussed about the former, I'm afraid, although I was quite cross about the latter. (And LJ DID apologize and reinstate the latter!)

[nutmeg3.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Kiddie porn is kiddie porn, whether the subjects are real kids or fictional ones. Whip me, beat me, make me eat cheese, but I don't have a problem (and neither does the First Amendment, as near as I can tell) when someone cracks down on it. And yeah, I'm not sure "art" is the term I'd use to describe what I saw, subject matter entirely aside.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm just not sure that this is exactly a big burning issue for freedom of speech here ... :P Of course, there's also the part where LJ is a private entity with terms of service to which we consented when we created our accounts, which means the whole thing isn't even ABOUT freedom of speech anyway.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_jems_/]

I agree, the fans who were deleted were in the wrong when it comes to LJ, and if my journal is deleted for violating TOS (and I'm pretty sure there are reasons in there if one searches hard enough), I won't go complaining and trying to get it reinstated.

However, I think this was the final straw that made me emotionally disengage from LJ (but not my flist. That's a different matter). I've always had some part of me that felt I owed them allegiance for hosting my home on the web, but no longer.

[tx-cronopio.livejournal.com]

I have to agree!

[sp23.livejournal.com]

I agree, too. However, this still makes me nervous enough that I'm going to actively start reposting all my porn fic to my insane journal account just to be on the safe side. I've just been putting it off because it's going to be a loathsomely burdensome job.

[hlynn.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I agree. As much as the majority of this stuff is based in fantasy, it still falls under the TOS as a bannable offense.

One thing that's been irking me is how many of the people involved in the offenses don't see *why* it's a big deal. They're thinking, 'well, I'm not a pedophile, these are just characters, and I'm not out fondling little kids', but it still looks like the behavior of a pedophile to everyone else. Even in Japan, where a lot of anime fans got the idea that underage relationships were A-OK as long as it was drawn, there are plans to make the drawn underage porn as illegal as the photographed kind. (This was in response to the number of child abductions and molestations on the rise over there.)

[jerusha]

Oh, dear. I can't feel much sympathy for those who are asking for deletion.

[txvoodoo.livejournal.com]

You know, part of it is that fandom has been so accepting and welcoming to all alternative kinks, that people tend to forget that a lot these are NOT mainstream, or even bordering on the maintstream things. They're OUT THERE.

The one thing I'm surprised about is that no one has looked into being hosted on an ADULT server. There are tons of adult web hosts out there.

Of course, they'd have to then admit that their material is adult - not just playing around.

[sabrinanymph.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'll admit I do have some sympathy for those who've had accounts deleted, because technically they had no specific warning shots across the bow... just sudden, permanent deletions.

I think that's the part that irks me. That, and there isn't any clear info from 6A about who is making the decision about what is deleted or suspended and what isn't.

I've also heard from a couple of sources that the post linked to for one of the persons deleted, while it may have technically been underage, certainly did not look 'underage', I've not actually seen the drawing myself, so I can't speak to that one way or another.

I think what I would like, and what so many other people would like, is to know that there's some transparency. That 6A says, this team reviews posts that are submitted, they have to be submitted, and in most content cases, the user will be given a warning. I think this would make so much more sense. Particularly in terms of art/fic, etc. If a user has one post that is inappropriate, a warning shot saying 'look, this is against our ToS, here's why it's against our ToS', please remove this post and do not continue to post this material. If you do, you will be suspended. I could understand straight suspensions and banning with a journal filled with solicitations or photos of underage porn, but I guess I do have trouble understanding how a suspension without warning and a banning from LJ is necessary for a journal with fic/drawings against ToS unless once warned the person continues to post like information.

It doesn't surprise me that this has happened again, and I'm sure it will happen more in the future, but I'm increasingly disillusioned with not so much LJ's decisions as how they've handled those decisions, and I've got accounts elsewhere, even though I have nothing so far as I know, that would even remotely violate ToS.

[tomte.livejournal.com]

This is why the tomte account is used *only* to comment on others' LJ accounts, and why my actual blog is somewhere else. I know you can't always rely on another website to keep your stuff safe--especially if the stuff in question is, well, questionable.

[gillo]

My online time and access is limited currently, so I'm commenting here instead of posting myself. I agree. And for once, though I, too, feel a touch soiled by it, I agree with LJ. Child porn is illegal except in coutries where child abuse isn't. Even manips need bases, and drawings need models. It's not victimless IMO. And it's not as if Strikethrough wasn't a warning.

No, I can see I am going to have to post. But later. Today I have to go to Verona to the opera. (Yay!)